Episode 133: Building AI Without Risking the Core Business with Katie Fortunato

What we did at Higher Innovations was establish a brand where we could incubate new ideas using AI and have this playground to test and try new things with emerging tools without posing any risk to the core business and its customers.

That's how I've been spending the past couple years, thinking about how we can keep innovating.

We look at innovation in a couple of ways: mergers and acquisitions and what we can build, which is where playing with AI comes into effect, or where we need to partner to reach more similar customer types and help them solve similar talent challenges.

Hi, my name is Demetri Panici and I'm a content creator, agency owner, and AI enthusiast. You're listening to the AI Agents podcast brought to you by Jotform and featuring our CEO and founder Aytekin Tank.

This is the show where artificial intelligence meets innovation, productivity, and the tools shaping the future of work. Enjoy the show.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Agents podcast. In this episode, we have Katie Fortunado, the co-founder and EVP of innovation and platform strategy at Higher Innovations.

How are you doing today, Katie?

Great, Demetri. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for being on the show. I'm really excited to chat more with you about Jobstream and everything you're doing in your world.

As we lead into this episode, tell us a little bit about what you do and your first exposure to working with AI.

What I do at Higher Innovations is oversee platform innovation and strategy. We are a business about 16 years old that has been innovating in the talent and human capital space.

We build technologies, products, and services that help employers find the talent they need. Good companies need their talent to grow.

We come from a human-centered success perspective in business and organizations. For example, if you want to grow sales, you need to hire more salespeople.

Talent is essential, especially for startups or founders. Getting the right talent is really hard.

We work with some of the globe's biggest companies, helping with recruitment, marketing, and advertising efforts, and offer products and services across AI to help the talent funnel and internal people functions.

That's really interesting and intersects with what we're doing here, utilizing AI to get the most out of your current workforce and scale lean.

What does an average day look like for you in your role?

An average day is different every day, which I love. It feels a bit scrappy and nimble. We have an acronym on my team: flying by the seat of our pants.

That doesn't mean we're disorganized; we're able to change on the fly, shift strategy, look at real market and client feedback, shape new products, iterate, test, and fail quickly to try new things.

We work with a lot of data day-to-day. I usually start by looking at Google Analytics for website traffic and visibility, customer sentiment, and what customers did or said yesterday.

Then I look at the plan ahead for myself and the team, including meetings, partners, and any risks or roadblocks.

The day usually starts with a 10-minute standup with the engineering team to block and tackle what we aim to accomplish by the end of the day.

You also asked about my entree into AI. At Higher Innovations, we have a legacy company called Recruit that came up through the adtech curve.

When it was happening on the consumer side, HR tech and talent tech were usually a couple of years behind, which AI is now changing.

Back then, LinkedIn and Indeed were emerging, and consumer ad tech involved programmatic and video advertising, combining various ad tech platforms into one.

We started that for the jobs market. For example, DoorDash has a constant need to hire drivers and manages ad spend accordingly.

Working at that company meant established workflows and systems from 15 years ago, and we've seen innovation and evolution in the tech stack, now with AI.

As a legacy business, we have compliance and standards to meet when working with Fortune 500 and large enterprises, making AI innovation risky and not the best way to experiment with emerging tools.

So, we established Higher Innovations as a brand to incubate new ideas using AI and have a playground to test new tools without risking the core business or its customers.

That's how I've spent the past couple of years thinking about how to keep innovating.

We look at innovation through mergers and acquisitions and building new things, where playing with AI comes into effect, or partnering to reach similar customer types and solve talent challenges.

That's how we look at innovation and growth.

What is your general approach to solving issues in workflows and integrating AI so it doesn't become an overwhelming process?

How do you find a process and get buy-in, especially as a legacy business?

You have to spend money to grow. The first step was getting buy-in and looking holistically at the company to consider worst-case scenarios if AI came along with something better and clients left.

Every business is thinking about that and what the future workforce needs to look like for sustainability and growth.

That includes the skills needed for new employees and creating a philosophy on AI, boundaries, and guardrails, which differ for every company based on culture and employer brand.

Our startup, Jobstream, is an affiliate marketing platform launched as part of our incubator model, balancing financial constraints and buy-in.

The challenge is how quickly we can build and get to market, considering historic R&D budgets and paths to market.

We aim to beat the system by doing it faster, cheaper, more efficiently, hiring fewer people, and moving quickly with a small, nimble team.

Putting innovation in a vacuum was a game changer. After testing manually for a few months, we launched within three days using vibe coding technology and started selling and helping clients.

Vibe coding tech is awesome and one of my favorite tools. I use it across many things, including Claude Code and other third-party tools like Lovable.

Was it your internal team shifting resources towards vibe coding? Were engineers involved or non-engineers?

Our process keeps the team flexible with changing work dynamics like remote and offshore work. I'm a product-minded founder, very hands-on in shaping prototypes that start with pen and paper.

I put concepts into prompts and prototypes that quickly show the idea, which I can give to engineers.

Team vibe is important. I love the engineers and head of product I'm working with. We have a few irons in the fire and have found our own model for building together.

I'd love to hear more about that because every company is doing their own intriguing thing. For me, it's centralized to me and another person improving and building upon feedback.

What's your favorite vibe coding tool?

I've used Lovable for a while but took a break due to recursive errors. When 4.5 Opus came out, it solved those issues.

Now, I give Claude Chrome extension or Claude co-work a directive to improve something, and it prompts Lovable nonstop until the directive is complete.

For example, I built a dashboard using short links software and API through Lovable, and in a couple of hours, it was made.

I asked to make it look better, and a few hours later, it handled all the CSS and improved the look.

It's good to hear what people are switching to or discovering because innovation is fast and new tools come out all the time.

Yesterday, it was all about Claw Enthropic and non-technical coding, giving engineering capabilities to non-technical people, which is a game changer for product innovation.

If you hear from customers that their problems are changing, you can quickly figure out what to build to solve them.

We have an internal love affair between Replet, Rebel, and Lovable ourselves.

Even basic things like time tracking internally can be built cheaply with Lovable, saving money compared to subscriptions for small teams.

Many functionalities are rudimentary and only needed at scale, which is why hosted services charge more.

Before we met today, I was on a product discovery call with Sophia, founder of Trust Fund VC and Girl Boss.

We debated commercial viability and what someone is willing to pay to invest in technology.

I said AI and new features are causing tech stack consolidation because AI makes it easier to combine tools like Zoom, Figma, and Loom.

Zoom's capabilities have transformed, allowing collaborative and asynchronous work, changing the landscape.

As a buyer of technology, I wait to buy as long as I can because of evolving features, like Google's platform where you don't have to leave the ecosystem.

Beyond a great idea, having the customer is the most important thing in innovation.

Even with Google, which seems less innovative among new tools, they've won the contract to update Siri, which was supposed to be catchy but has been delayed.

Apple Home hasn't been upgraded with anything new, showing the importance of having customers and innovation.

Regarding Jobstream, how do you determine if there is a customer, and has AI helped with research and projections?

It starts with flourishing based on core clients' problems, mainly large enterprise talent acquisition, which is a premium white-glove product.

We want to help more midmarket and newer companies with hiring, which is painful without the right tech stack and systems.

Founders' time is precious and better spent in high-value activities than prospecting.

We bring industry depth and expertise into nimble environments to solve problems for smaller companies with different budgets.

A unique aspect is our Talent Market Index, which is like the stock market for ad spend in jobs, showing cycles like retail staffing up during holidays.

Understanding employer budget cycles gives flexibility in marketing new products and entering markets to address pain points.

Jobstream's coming out party is this year after stealth, as launching in Q4 in human capital is too noisy.

We refine, test, learn, and fail, accepting losing some clients as part of the process, launching in Q1 or Q2 to align with planning and budget cycles.

That makes a lot of sense.

How do you think the hiring market will change this upcoming year considering AI improvements?

Demetri, your audience is ahead, already thinking about AI. My prediction is you need to automate yourself before AI automates you.

Jobs will look different but not necessarily disappear. Not every job is AI-native, but those not using AI may lose jobs to those who do.

The job market is changing rapidly, but some constants remain, like healthcare's sustained demand for skilled workers despite talent shortages.

Healthcare is a good route for job security, and I'm passionate about ensuring a pipeline of caregivers, nurses, doctors, and essential workers.

AI engineer jobs are increasing, but LinkedIn's data mainly reflects desk workers, not essential workers like police, first responders, construction, manufacturing, and mining workers.

These roles don't get enough attention, and farming is another complex issue influenced by politics, all impacting the work ecosystem.

Most people think of knowledge work when they hear jobs, especially in my audience, so I appreciate you bringing up other sectors.

Since 2020, there's been a lack of healthcare professionals, and I've had interesting interviews about their role alongside AI to handle paperwork and other burdens.

Knowledge work is my main focus when talking about jobs.

People fall into three buckets about AI's impact: few believe AI will cause mass job loss; some expect many solopreneurs honing niche skills; others foresee leaner teams with AI handling rudimentary tasks while humans focus on strategy.

What's your prediction for the future of knowledge work with AI?

I see core knowledge workers managing AI to handle tasks, solopreneurs emerging, and fractional skill sets growing.

People are becoming solopreneurs with fractional skills, needing a bit of marketing, ops, and finance rather than hiring full-time specialists.

The gig economy is rising, with flexible work fitting personal lives, especially for women balancing family and career.

People want balance, not to work 24/7, and jobstream supports solopreneurs by providing a platform to run their own business.

The tool also works for brands, communities, or schools, adapting to users' career stages.

I agree about the challenges of commuting and balancing work and life, which is easier with remote work.

A boss once said growth was about FaceTime, being first in and last out, but now with remote work, presence is different.

That boss now runs AI responsibility at Gemini, showing opportunities come from making connections and being present.

What message would you give solopreneurs or small business owners about this year?

Many memes say luxury is being offline and present. I think about systems to free up my highest-value time by outsourcing chores like laundry and errands.

Outsourcing saves time for family and aligns with my values, though not everyone chooses this.

I relate; I have a cleaner because it reduces stress, and services can include laundry and deep cleaning.

If you don't like a chore, invest in yourself to save time with AI tools and spend some money on services to reduce stress.

Work stress is often compounded by life stress, so systems to manage both are important.

In business, preserving human connectivity is key, especially for solopreneurs whose unique skills and perspectives matter.

At Jobstream, everyone signs an AI policy promising never to create AI humans but to use real people sharing real experiences.

Consumer trust and brand credibility matter, and faking it with AI harms that.

I hope authenticity remains because AI-generated content can be formulaic and lack real context.

I miss genuine, unfiltered posts like personal stories, which felt more real than algorithmic content.

Despite negatives, using AI to empower authentic self-expression is best.

I hope we have more entrepreneurs and empowered workers using AI to focus on meaningful work.

You have a platform and listeners and can be a powerful thought leader.

Please plug what you want about Jobstream and your work.

Thank you, Demetri. I could talk about AI and vibe coding all day. I read about new technology and tinker instead of watching TV.

For those building a solopreneur journey, Jobstream is a great way to start. It's designed for influencers and creators already monetizing recommendations.

With layoffs and AI fears, Jobstream helps influencers connect and earn income based on helping others.

I recommend it to anyone curious about monetizing their digital presence, with potential earnings from $200 to $2,000.

Make sure to check out Katie's LinkedIn and Jobstream at getjobstream.com.

Please leave a review on Apple, Spotify, or other platforms if you care to.

Thank you for watching. We appreciate you and will see you in the next one. Bye-bye.